New engine

[Ben_b]

Hi guys,

Im going to be setting up an excel early next year but i think i need a new engine for it as it has that slight classic clicking sound so I assume it would be down a few HP. Where would be the best place to pick up a DOHC engine and how much do they go for.

Ben :)

[Crazy Dave]

Probably just needs a new set of lifters and an oil change. (a good oil change to try and clean out some of the blocked passages).

[MSA77]

if you still have the engine in the car and running i highly recommend an oil flush product that you get from Latho , pour it in start the engine and leave to run for about 20 or 30 minutes , 90% of the time it will free up sticky lifters and clean the engine out , then once the noise is gone do an oil change and get yourself another of latho's products called "Roil" ad that to everything that needs oil , im a skeptic but i have to say these two product actually do work

Allbrand wrecking at Brendale are looking after us excel guys and will sell you a twin cam for about $600


my two cent

[kelvin]

I've got a '98 twin cam engine, with 130,000k's for $400.
If you currently have a single cam, you will need computer, loom, north/south crossmenber, etc. Can do you a good deal on the lot.

[Crazy Dave]

And make sure you run the correct oil in it. People often put the 20w-50 cheap stuff in them as they are cheap cars and generally lucky to get an oil change from most excel owners. It is to thick for them so can cause ticking.

[kelvin]

At the risk of opening one of of those never ending posts.
What's a good oil? I've always considered synthetic oils to be overpriced marketing blurb, but I am old school, and must admit to using whatever Super Cheap has on special (brand name oils only). I've probably done 1,000's of rally k's and never had an oil related problem. Sorry, wrong, last rally. An Excel gearbox will only do 20 km's with no oil.
Elucidate me.

[MSA77]

i use to have a bit to do with Top Fuel Drag cars , and have seen many 500cui V8 alloy block engines in pieces at the end of a run , the fuel used in Top Fuel is predominately Nitro methane which has a theoretical octane of around 235RON, and one of the bi products when combusted is oxygen, so to tune them is impossible they simply run lean , but when you only have to make them last a few seconds the trick was to double the volume of fuel going into the engine every second or so , but when these engines go kabooom !!!! the forces inside, are as you can imagine, BIG!!!, getting back to oils, when we would look at all the bent and broken bits of crank, piston, con rod, etc , when we looked at the bearings , as mangled as they were there was never any sign of pick up or fusion between the white metal of the bearing and the journal of the crank , in fact often the white metal of the bearing was in perfect condition , so even in the most severe conditions , conditions which even the poor old excel rally car are never going to see ,the oil continued to do its job,
whilst oils aint oils and some do offer a little bit less internal friction than others , for what we are doing here, oils are oils.
personally if ive just built a new engine i will run it in on cheap stuff on special at where ever, then once im happy the engines run in, i will more than likely use what ever the manufacturer recommends and throw in some Roil as well.

my two cents :)

[rexxus]

I look at oil as cheap insurance. Good quality oil changed frequently, can't hurt.

In my old gemini I used to run fully synthetic and change it every couple of rallies. The person who bought my old car will happily tell you how good that motor was.

Whilst the engines aren't put through drag race conditions, they aren't exactly having a nice jolly up the coast to the beach for the day either.

When I built my current car I spent a bit of time checking out oils, fors and againsts, etc etc etc. It all became too much and for a lark I rang the number on the back of a penrite oil I jotted down whilst at repco one day.

Now I rang the number, spoke to some person who took my details and said they'd have someone call me back. The person who called me back introduced himself as the head chemist and if I could provide him some more information he'd do some research and let me know. So i gave him the answers to his questions, he wanted a fair bit of info so I was reasonably curious but answered as best I could. He took all the info and told me he'd call me back.

24 hours later he rang me back and said something along the lines of "right, well I've done the calculations, spoken to a person I know who works in the engineers department at "your manufacturer" and together we've worked out that for your application you should look at this oil, with this filter, doing changes at these intervals".

This absolutely blew me away, here I was some random bloke ringing their help line and I had an oil chemist take my requirements, query the car manufacturer and come back with a customised plan on how to keep my motor ticking over.

The stuff they advised I use isn't cheap, but it isn't their most expensive product either. Give the 1300 number on the back of a penrite oil bottle a call and see what they suggest, nothing to lose and if you get the service similar to what I did you'll be a customer for life :)

The other option you have is speak to Craig Newell about the oil analysis service his work offers, run what ever you do now, get it analysed and see where that leads you.

[MSA77]

rexxus !! who built that engine in your old Gemini ?

[DaveTrees]

The stuff they advised I use isn't cheap, but it isn't their most expensive product either. Give the 1300 number on the back of a penrite oil bottle a call and see what they suggest, nothing to lose and if you get the service similar to what I did you'll be a customer for life :)

Just out of interest, what did they recommend ?

[rexxus]

rexxus !! who built that engine in your old Gemini ?

The guy I bought the car off, I think. I changed the head gasket once after I dropped a nut down the cam chain and it got wedge half way down on one of the chain guides :spank:

Just out of interest, what did they recommend ?

Sin10 for the motor, there was a long reason he gave for it, but not being a chemist I got kinda lost shortly after "hi it's john from penrite, i've spoken to a guy I know in France and we reckon for your car Sin10 would be good because kjdglangndkjnaskndfoasnfonasoidfnaosif shear sdfsodfosno...."

[Crazy Dave]

i use to have a bit to do with Top Fuel Drag cars , and have seen many 500cui V8 alloy block engines in pieces at the end of a run , the fuel used in Top Fuel is predominately Nitro methane which has a theoretical octane of around 235RON, and one of the bi products when combusted is oxygen, so to tune them is impossible they simply run lean , but when you only have to make them last a few seconds the trick was to double the volume of fuel going into the engine every second or so , but when these engines go kabooom !!!! the forces inside, are as you can imagine, BIG!!!, getting back to oils, when we would look at all the bent and broken bits of crank, piston, con rod, etc , when we looked at the bearings , as mangled as they were there was never any sign of pick up or fusion between the white metal of the bearing and the journal of the crank , in fact often the white metal of the bearing was in perfect condition , so even in the most severe conditions , conditions which even the poor old excel rally car are never going to see ,the oil continued to do its job,
whilst oils aint oils and some do offer a little bit less internal friction than others , for what we are doing here, oils are oils.
personally if ive just built a new engine i will run it in on cheap stuff on special at where ever, then once im happy the engines run in, i will more than likely use what ever the manufacturer recommends and throw in some Roil as well.

my two cents :)


While drag cars might seem extreme in one way, they only run for s short time so don't have the same issues that rally cars have. Running engines, even stock ones, at their utmost for long periods will cause issues that drag cars could not ever face. The big difference I have heard (and seen some evidence for) between synthetic and organic oil is the difference in the level that they break down at. Organics definitely suffer when under high pressures and high temperatures for long periods, and even when your engine coolant temperature might be steady, your engine oil temperature can still be climbing. This was very evident on a datto we used to run years ago and while I have put the gauge in the excel, I have yet to hook it up to monitor oil temp, so don't know how they perform, but with no oil cooler will expect running flat out on 30km + stages will start getting warm, especially on warm days. The beauty about synthetic is more that you can rely on it more and it definitely lasts longer from my experience. Organics I would change every event, synthetic I change about every 6 months (3 or 4 events with me).

For my road car, standard oil would be fine, but open up an engine that has been running synthetic and it is much cleaner, even with half the interval. Standard oil doesn't pull all the dirt out as well, breaks down and eventually clogs up some of the galleries. To me it is worth it in the long run, especially counting the extra miles between changes. I use the Nulon stuff, but there is lots on the market now with most brands having half a dozen different types of oils.

But my original message is mostly about getting the correct grade of oil which should be a summer viscosity of around 40.

[MSA77]

Exactly right Dave






But my original message is mostly about getting the correct grade of oil which should be a summer viscosity of around 40.

[HMCA]

I've seen a few issues with sludging in these engines of late, the grade of oil is important as is the lubrication ability of the oil and the service schedules.

You also need to be a bit careful that the snake oil doesn't cause a pick up blockage.

Cheers Mick