NSW representation at the National Meeting

[HMCA]

Well at this stage it looks like it Shab and myself representing the state on Saturday in Melbourne.

Col has a bit of an agenda going around but are there any issues that NSW competitors want tabled at the meeting?

1. Who's putting together the State report?
2. Should vehicle freedoms be considered?
3. Changes to National Regs?
4. Accent/getz engine usage 1.5 only?
5. An Excel Club?
6. Location of National Event in 2010

So please let me know your thoughts either by e-mail, PM or public or phone

Cheers Mick

[Crazy Dave]

Until today I was going. Just got hammered for what is going to be long nights and no weekends of for this stupid course I am on for the next 5 weeks and here I am thinking it was going to give me extra free time for the next 5 weeks. Very bad assumption.:sick:

So as for the NSW stuff; Whitey was trying to get everyone on Skype so we could have a bit of a meeting (I wonder if they could do this at the national meeting). Does everyone have access to the internet and skype but I bet we couldn't organise a decent time between the lot of us.

Some of my thoughts/ideas to bounce around.:grouphug:

State calendar development each year. I think it might be of great opportunity for development and building of the series to include a bit of more entry level stuff, especially at the beggining of the year. Along the lines of what David Mariner had suggested for SA except we maybe have all states follow a guidline that we develop. For example first event of the year could be a khanacross. Second event and autocross or rallysprint and then 4 rallies. We don't seem to have the competitors to have separate series for novice and graded drivers yet that I can see unless it might bring more people into the mix by having a novice only series of mainly lower status events. It was an idea David started last year and I think maybe we should look at furthering the idea. Probably won't be able to get organised enough for next year unless the individual states take it in hand (although it would be still possible to achieve) but I think should be discussed further for future development and more ideas along that agenda.


As for what you have written Mick
1. Don't know. I don't personally know how many cars a built in NSW. I just know only about half are running regularly at the moment although things are looking up for next year.
2. Probably not at this stage. I personally would love a cam/extractor/chip package as this would definitely help in getting higher outright results. I am sick of slowing down when the foot is flat to the floor going up a hill in third. If we could secure a standard package that was easy to police for about $1000- it would probably also make it less likely for people to cheat. But I do not believe the greater amount of people think so but don't know for sure.
3. National regs look pretty good. I do propose that we go back to the proposal I put in last year for the rear wing as it is a formula that is widely used. Funnily enough what CAMS put in the package for that new club car thingy class they are proposing is identical to what I proposed lat year (based on group N rules) so then people can go out and run anything that fits (and I could run my wing again :lick:)
4. What are the main differences. Is it internal or is it just the manifold. They are not very common (no where near the amount as there was excels) and what would be the cost of buying the bits (manifold ?) to upgrade our current engines to one. How much difference in HP is there. The guys with the SW engines. Do you know how much more HP than standard you get from a good rebuild. Would there be much difference between them and the accent engine.
5. It was an idea to try and help promote and develop the sport. I think it would be great but don't know if we could get there. We can still run all this as a group entity and don't need to be a club. Things like prize money just needs to be sorted through sponsors etc. I definitely propose that we go our own way as we seem to be the only ones that make a positive identity to the series and not be restricted to being called a CAMS series. Most states it would make little difference at the moment but NSW it would, WA it would have. (As an aside for NSW, I don't see why newbies coming into the series should have to cop up $50- per team to be a part of the series and anyone willing to build and run and excel cars under our rules should be counted into the series which also is better for sponsors as then we have more competitors and teams).
6. National event/series I think is really important for the long term promotion/attraction of the series but I still haven't seen an effective answer yet. Wagga (which I believe is the most central point in Australia for rallying by demographics) don't seem capable of putting on such an event at the moment. The 2 day amsag event at Cowra was brilliant and probably second best in location of any rally I know and is probably going to be a one day event next year. Other than that there is the move it around from state to state but I think you will have even less cars coming out to play then. Another option is a co-efficient type system where 3 or 4 rounds from each state count, possibly at varying levels/values, and then best 5 events count towards a National title. Maybe you could earn extra points for travelling interstate or maybe just 1 round from each state and 3 rounds count for those that just want to concentrate on a national series and others could concentrate on state. Just ideas but with Bega an uncertainty then what next and Bega is not SA or QLD friendly (not really even NSW or VIC friendly either). Depends a lot on what sort of vision we have for the series and something that should really be talked about a bit more at a Natioanl meeting. Define the vision better and it is easy to work out what to do next.

[Damo666]

2.....I personally would love a cam/extractor/chip package as this would definitely help in getting higher outright results. I am sick of slowing down when the foot is flat to the floor going up a hill in third. If we could secure a standard package that was easy to police for about $1000- it would probably also make it less likely for people to cheat. But I do not believe the greater amount of people think so but don't know for sure.

I still think this is a top idea. There have been quite a few cars that have been sold this year, and I'm assuming majority of those are people trying to find something with a little more power (??).

A control cam, extractor and possibly chip package would be very small additional cost in the grand scheme of building a car, and would give them just that little extra edge to make them a possible outright P2 contender (which they are close enough to in stock form!).

Simpe upgrades like this shouldnt affect reliability at all, would be really easy to police under the current engine sealing arrangements, and you could run a stock and a modified class for those who want to keep their cars standard.

The fact that it isnt a bog-standard Hyundai might also entice some newbies who dont know any better and would otherwise turn to a PRC car they can modify, and it might also ensure current owners hang onto theirs longer.

Combined with the other benefits of rallying a Hyundai, such as spare cars on every corner and the great manufacturer support, I reckon it would be a winner. I'd very seriously consider building another if this was the case!

[fro]

Mick, I just sent you a PM, but there's a few bits that I reckon should be said in public.

2. Should vehicle freedoms be considered?

Why? The appeal of the series is that it's close competition, and that comes from sticking to simple, standard formula. I could be convinced to look at a set of extractors for the series, 'cause the standard manifolds do crack. But really, it's just another thing to buy to keep up with the Joneses.

If you want to step outside of the series, you can go and play in PRC with the rest, but as Dave proved at the last state round (and Fazz, and Paul Batten, and others have proven), if you pedal the (series-compliant) Excel well enough, it's good enough to win P2 anyway... so again, why?

4. Accent/getz engine usage 1.5 only?

Why? There's plenty of twin cam Excel motors out there? Why not just use one of them... I don't understand the impetus.

[fro]

Oh, I would ask for one additional freedom... to be able to drill a hole in the back of the drum backing plate, so that you can adjust drums in service without having to knock the drum off...

[swill]

Fro's on the money. As an interested outside spectator the last thing you want to do is start modifing them. OK there not real powerful. But thats the appeal. If your worried about cheating allowing modifications will only give you more scope to cheat.

[Gav143]

Hi Guys,
As a non competitor but a person who is in the early stages of preparing a car to join the series I am going to throw my hat in the ring.

There have been some real valid points raised from several people.
On the main the freedoms allowed as to engine mods or replacement engines.
The way I look at the series is that it is a great way to go back to my younger days (I am 45 and financially OK) have some fun and bring up more war stories. So in being my age and my financial position I could probably afford to make all the mods and changes necessary to have a rocket that would just about take every bit of fun and social aspect out of the series. I have spoke to others and I can I say one thing the general view of this series is that or guys are a great bunch and prepared to help the newcomer, ME. If the series starts to allow further mods and changes I have the feeling that it will
1. Lose it is advantage as a low cost entry point for the sport.
2. Become less helpful to the newcomer. (don’t want to tell you, might catch up to me mentally)
3. Become a financial burden on the newcomer as without the mods they would feel that they have no chance of winning so why compete.

The last point has already raised it’s head, in regard to the suspension issue. A young guy i was speaking to was convinced that you have to run $3000+ suspension to run the car competivitly. Now I know that is only a perception but that was the feeling and he was turned off by that point. I know that in any car you run it will cost that for variable suspension.

This is a great entry point series and it should stay just that. A entry point. that to me means low cost non modified I would even go as far as removing the variable suspension and go to aftermarket gas strut and springs this could be done as novice and modified series. we all still run together but have two championships Non-modified novice and Modified. It would only be the cost of a couple of more trophies.

The idea of an Excel club. I think we all ready have one (this forum) at the moment we are all members of other (CAMS) clubs in our local areas. I would like to meet up with the local excel guys at some point:grouphug: I do agree with the introduction of a joining fee to run in the series. Cover some of the cost of trophies etc. This may already be the case???.


To me this should be all about bringing more younger guys in to the sport, start with the bog standard low cost entry point and a second modified championship as damo suggested “The fact that it isnt a bog-standard Hyundai might also entice some newbies who dont know any better and would otherwise turn to a PRC car they can modify, and it might also ensure current owners hang onto theirs longer”

[HMCA]

guys

I agree with all, these are discussion points in Cols agenda that we (NSW) needed to have an opinion on and not my views/suggestions on where the series needs to go.

Thanks to the guys that have made coments and I hope that others will communicate their thoughts to the series representitives before Saturday.

Cheers Mick

[Whitey]

My thoughts;
1. There are about 12 cars in NSW however we have been unable to get more than 6 to any single event this year.
Website is still growing like crazy, probably need some financial support for 2010.
2. NO
3. Last version i saw looked sort of OK
4. No absolutley not there is no need, plenty of Excel twin cams still around, just another unneeded variable.
5 Would be a nice idea
6 NOT Bega.

Thanks to Shab and Mick for representing NSW.

[bek82]

I know I am a NAV and I'll be in confinement for at least the next 8 months......(up the duff :sick:) but here is my opinions some of which I think I brought up last time these ideas were floated.

I just think KISS - Keep it simple stupid.

Stick with what we know. An excel is an excel not an accent or anything else.

Mods ok eg drilling holes in drums for ease of service but not for performance, if people can win p2 in standard excels don't muck with with it. This is a budget series, we shouldn't be changing the goal post every time someone gets bored or feels they need to blame their car for their performance as opposed to their driving talent.

How about also having different types of events during the year such as khanacrosses or motorkhanas for points instead of prizes. We all have lives and don't all have the same weekends free and the cash to drive 8 hours to a full rally event but still want to get the excel series out there.

I have said my opinions now I will go back in my hole......:|

[Col Vic]

Thanks for all the input guys (and Bek - congratulations !), we now have a pretty good idea of what you all want. All we need now is a bit more from the series up north. The agenda items have come from a number of people from all over Australia, so they are not all Victorian (or NSW) ideas and there is obviously not a lot of support for some of them.

Sounds like it will be a good meeting.

Col

[Latho]

Website is still growing like crazy, probably need some financial support for 2010.
I sent you a PM a few weeks ago about providing financial support to you for the hosting and upkeep of the website... you never replied.

[fro]

Largo, I'm sure Whitey will be along, but I understand he's been bouncing around with work, so things Excel have had to take a back seat.

[anthony tanzer]

All we need now is a bit more from the series up north.

Col, I sent an email to Dirk and Greg a while back suggesting someone should type up a Qld report to submit if nobody could make the meeting, so I'm sure our secretary has something put together.

Cheers Tanz.

[Damo666]

Just wondering if there was any feedback from the national meeting? (Shab/Mick?)

Any outcomes from the original questions or changes to the regs for 2010?

Ta
Damo

[fro]

Just wondering if there was any feedback from the national meeting? (Shab/Mick?)

Any outcomes from the original questions or changes to the regs for 2010?

Ditto.

I think I got the run-down from most, but keen to hear the official line.

[HMCA]

Hi guys

Just found my notes from the meeting yesterday. Will get onto it over the next couple of days.

Gotta fix a blow out on the swimming pool first:splat: