Engine mounts

[Andrei]

My car is now in Craig's workshop for some exhaust work.
He recommended to replace engine mounts (twin cam) by urethane/poly, something more rigid than rubber.
Noltec has been approached and does not want to be involved.
Fulcrum in QLD wants 1500 for 4 mounts :crazy:
Can someone think of a supplier?
Cheers
Andrei

[ae86trueno]

After Breaking one on the weekend i would also be interested in a solution,

But i think Mathew was going to source some new ones from Mick.

Just did a quick search and this shop looks like they will do it for you for about $160 per mount

http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=784&category_id=201&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2

Ben.

[Andrei]

After Breaking one on the weekend i would also be interested in a solution,

But i think Mathew was going to source some new ones from Mick.

Ben.

Thanks for a link Ben.
Are you guys opting for a new rubber mounts?

[ae86trueno]

I suppose it will depend on how much new ones are ??

Mick ??

Ben.

[Andrei]

Thread from BMSC about engine mounts on a different car, with interesting DIY option at the end.

http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/rallying-technical/11303-solid-engine-mounts.html

http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/attachments/rallying-technical/2128-solid-engine-mounts-enginemounts.pdf?d=1170910454

Share your thoughts, guys.

Does anyone have second hand engine mounts (worn rubber OK) - I may turn my Excel into guinea pig for this cast-in-place bushes.

[Whitey]

Noltec has been approached and does not want to be involved.

Thats Funny, i got a destroyed one, remade with Urethane by Noltec late last year. Mind you it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't 1/4 of $1500 either.

It is interesting that engine mounts and standard strut top rubbers have become an issue, obviously these parts have a "life" and will need to be replaced periodically.

[Andrei]

Thats Funny, i got a destroyed one, remade with Urethane by Noltec late last year. Mind you it wasn't cheap, but it wasn't 1/4 of $1500 either.

It is interesting that engine mounts and standard strut top rubbers have become an issue, obviously these parts have a "life" and will need to be replaced periodically.

Spoke to Steve from NOltec, they are busy and not taking custom jobs now. At least not until Andrew is back from overseas early June.

Whiteline not making them and no custom jobs.
Nolathane (RedRange) - same story.
MRT using RPW products, so back to Ben's link. Talking $640 for the set of 4, and that's after $440 rebate when old mounts returned to them.

Looks like I will be starting urethane lab in my garage shortly :rofl:

[ae86trueno]

Good find Andrei
We might have to join you in your urethene lab,
Bulk buy on materials may be cheeper ??

Ben.

[Damo666]

Andrei,

I recently repaired a Gemini torque-tube mount in a similar fashion (as the factory replacements are just under $300 wtf:)

I taped it up and filled it with a $30 tube of Sikaflex polyurethane, and it seems to be controlling the torque from the 33kw monster really well...

[Whitey]

Good find Andrei
We might have to join you in your urethene lab,
Bulk buy on materials may be cheeper ??

Ben.

I'd be in on this also. who is volunteering their kitchen??

[ae86trueno]

doesnt Glenn's workshop have an oven ??

It has everything else :)

[Andrei]

doesnt Glenn's workshop have an oven ??

It has everything else :)

Who knows, what is the difference between sikaflex and erapol polymers? Erapol has a few different products with differetn physical properties.

Also have a careful look at the Era web site. The mentioned product (CCM75A) is Cold Cure. Which means you do NOT need the oven. It settles at 25 degrees - it takes 7 days though. Minimum cure at 70 degrees is 10 (!) hours, not 4 as mentioned on BMSC forum.

[machine]

I have used Devcon Flexane 94. Costs around the 100 mark for a 454g pack, some time ago though. Got mine from blackwoods. Its easy to use, 2 part mix which hardens fairly quickly and doesnt require an oven. One pack is enough for four mounts, and lil bit left over for whatever, maybe one more mount. I have a new braker bar handle.
I basically cleaned and removed any uneccesary rubber insert, roughed up the surface so it could bond, tape/gladwrap one side, mix and pour in.
Make sure the sealed end is sealed well otherwise it will leak out. Very runny at first then thickens quickly, have more than enough time to pour but dont have a coffee.
Small heatgun on low will remove bubles on surface for a smooth look.
Can also get softer stuff, and also surface bonding prep stuff. I have had no probs whatsoever, and that was also with torque of an elantra engine and a lumpy 1.5 sohc engine.
Good stuff, not the cheapest but far more cost effective then some options.
Product link below.

http://www.devcon.com/devconfamilyproduct.cfm?familyid=148

[Andrei]

OK, here is the homework :)

Hardness scale

Rubber band 25-35
Light car tyre 60-65
Tap washer 85-90
Heavy track tyre 95-100

Standard engine rubber mount 40-50
Noltec polyethylene bushes 80-85

From what I can see on the web, material with 70 to 80 hardness will be a good place to start.

As to the material choice.

Sikaflex does not seem to be the right material for the purpose.
It is primarily a sealant, and it’s hardness is 23-27, which is very low.
http://www.sika.com.au/home/cmc/cmc/Datasheets/tds/SikaflexPRO_tds.pdf

Devcon’s Flexane 94 seems to be a good product, however with claimed hardness 97, I would not use it.
The harder the better is not the case – cracks in metal may be the result.
The softer version, Flexane 80, has hardness 87, which is still a bit high.
There is an add-on flexibiliser (what a word :crazy: ) which lets you to lower the hardness.
http://www.devcon.com/techinfo/153.pdf
The good thing is you can do different hardness bushes from the same set of chemicals, so no waste.

Erapol CC80A or CCM75A is another shortlisted material
http://www.erapol.com.au/about_pu/elastomers_properties.html


Some more ideas about the technology:
http://martybugs.net/Pintara/mount.cgi

Well, does this count for a project? :rofl:

[Glenn]

Yep. The workshop has an oven.....better to use that than annoy the wife.

You're all definitely welcome to do this at the workshop...just not this weekend :) .... I'm having a non-rally/non-car weekend as I'm a bit stuffed from the effort and excitement of the past few weeks.

Cheers

Glenn

[Whitey]

I probably have some mounts, bottoms at least, that we can use to try it out.
cheers
dw

[Automotive Gadgets]

I can get urethane engine mounts made up if anyone is interested. Call me on 0419 299 325. The prices would be much better than the $640 previously quoted.
Alternatively you can pack the voids in the mounts with rubber strip ( I use a 3mm strip) and use Sikaflex to hold the rubber in place. We used this method on a Corolla Cup car years ago and it increased mount life significantly.

Bean

[Andrei]

Anthony,
I may need your help with fuel tank protection, but that will be after Bega.

[Andrei]

OK, just got a pack of flexane 80 delivered. There will be some polymer magic happening this weekend :hyper:
I opted for a small pack for a start to test things. If lucky, there will be enough to make front and back mounts.
If it does not turn out that way, which mount is more critical to replace first?

[Whitey]

OK, just got a pack of flexane 80 delivered. There will be some polymer magic happening this weekend :hyper:
I opted for a small pack for a start to test things. If lucky, there will be enough to make front and back mounts.
If it does not turn out that way, which mount is more critical to replace first?

Hi Andrei,
how did the engine mount fabrication go?

[Andrei]

Hi Andrei,
how did the engine mount fabrication go?

All went to a plan. Removed front and back mounts, founfd them in VGC, so decided to fill the cavities rather than removing original rubber. Detergent wash, wire brush, then solvent to clean up. Thick paper plus silicone on one side to leakproof. Mixed Flexane, poured in. I used half of the 400 ml pack, which was just enough. Used heat gun to remove bubbles from the surface in about 15 minutes. Left it to cure overnight, next morning put in the oven 70 deg for 12 hours. That should cut a full cure time in half (normally 7 days).
(Had a grilled fish for dinner though :) )
Mounts look very good and solid. Have to see how they go in the bush...
Not sure if the side mounts are worth doing. The bottoms are the ones dealing with the torque, so may be leaving top ones softer is a good idea, unless someone convinces me to the contrary...

[Andrei]

Ben, how did your mounts go?

[ae86trueno]

we cheated,
We wedged polyurethene strips in the gaps of the mounts,
like you we didnt really want to destroy 4 good engine mounts.

Ours is very stiff now, you can definatly feel the little extra vibration through the car. Hopefully not too bad .

Ben.

[wagonist]

Old thread dig up!!!

Andrei, where did you get your materials for this?
I've got some spare mounts at home so I'd like to give this a try. I may forgo the oven curing though.

How have they held up?

[JonoS]

SSS on antrx.com is selling reconditioned mounts for FWD Pintaras, basically the same process as the martybugs link on page 2.

As far as durability in street cars, I know of a couple of worked 2.4l Pintaras out there with devcon mounts (one NA and one turbo'd) and they are reported to be holding up quite well.

I also know a guy in Brisbane who reconditions engine mounts by pressing in new rubbers, I borrowed his press and adapted a solid rubber mount to a Pintara mount housing, which worked really well.

This is the same mount as in the martybugs link, with a different (Mitsubishi?) insert.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8774/1001371f.th.jpg (http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001371f.jpg)

Food for thought...

[342Four]

65 Shore A polymer with a few holes drilled in it would be more then sufficient and shouldnt cost you more then $100 each per mount and would def hold out longer then a devcon mount

i noticed when i was replacing my timing belt that the engine mount on that side was ripped down the width of the mount - might be replacing that one soon, along with the destroyed rear mount

[fro]

I've found the centre of some Mitsubishi engine mounts are the right size, and you can just press them out of the mount and into the Hyundai mount exterior.

Damo has one of the ones I did previously.

[Damo666]

And its working a treat - replaced the crossmember last night and the mount looks as good as new.
Front one is from an FTO, and the rear is from an early EVO - both fit straight into the Excel bracket (I'm using SOHC mounts, the twincam ones may differ?).

[Damo666]

Shot of front mount -

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff126/damop/P1000131.jpg