To sway or not to sway?

[Crazy Dave]

What are the findings from those who have run with an anti roll bar and those who have run without it. What do you find is better and what is worse about it and overall do you think it quicker or slower, plus would this need an adjustment of steering/suspension to actually get the most out of or to get an improvement at all out of?????????????????.

PS I still have both front and rear ones in. I know Shab had removed the front but can't remember if he removed the back.

[John C]

Dave
Daniels car (ex Shabby- who is now very old) still has the rear bar and my car has front and rear

[haggers]

We had problem with the front sway bar contacting the drives when the DMS suspension was on full droop (Glenn's did't have that particular problem but he some problem which I juts visualise right now). So we have fgot a front bar and we have left the rear one off.

Given that thec ar hasn;t been driven and I am a virgin at FWD we may well end up putting them back in !

Haggers

[HMCA]

Dave

both our bar's are still in situ but are disconected. We tried the rear first and I liked the change in handling. We then tried the front in the hope of getting a bit better traction and I think it has worked.

Cheers Mick

[Whitey]

My front bar is removed and rear still connected.

I am thinking about disconnecting and seeing what difference it makes.

[ae86trueno]

I suppose its whatever your comfortable with,
Haggers considering your suspension is identical to ours,
Mathew Loves the handling of it, its totally predictable and was really easy
for him to drive fast by keeping his corner speed up, And he's only done 2 rally's worth of driving !!

It handles better then the Sprinter, there ive said it..
just need some more power now ..... :potstir:

Ben.

[Crazy Dave]

:hail: I know that must have been hard Ben and something that I am going to hassle Boris with so much pleasure.

Think I might be disconnecting them for Coffs by the sounds of things. Obviously going to roll a bit more instead of the nice flat slides but I need to work more on speed than sliding action. (Can't believe I would ever admit that as well).

[ae86trueno]

or it could just be Mathew has more natural talent then me :|

ahhh i cant believe i said that to..

About the roll, i didnt notice it inside the car, but looking at the shots from Bega it does roll a little, but i think thats where its getting its traction from by transfering more weight to the outside and onto the tyre. ??

[ernysp76]

We've found wet and sloppy a rear bar set on medium works well in keeping the tail in a bit longer (last years Bega and every other VRC last year) on dry and fast no rear bar. All front bushes tightened and sway bar bushes replaced with nolathane.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/RH_ExcelX3a.htm

[skypilot]

Thought I would bring this back to the top as it has now been a year since the last post.

[skypilot]

Out of curiosity, what sway bar setup are you running?

On the Excel? None.

When I fitted up the DMS, I couldn't get the struts in with either of the factory sway bars. I have contemplated getting some custom sway bars made, but figured I'd try to drive the thing as-is first, and then try to fine tune.

I didn't think anyone else was running any anti-roll bars, but am happy to be told I'm wrong?

Paul Batten does, both F&R works for him.

We don't and when Ed drove my car and Geoff drove Pauls the bars were disconected

I don't run bars. Like Fro I removed the rear due to clearance issues on the back. I ran 2.5 seasons with the front installed, but removed it last year and haven't looked back.

RoC (especially Kowen) was very hard on tyres. You won't find that sort of wear normally. Having said that, we set our best times on tyres that were completely stuffed.....those SP-85s are brilliant.

Look out for Fro at Port Mick and Dave....he's coming!

Being able to fit the DMS in there? I believe the "factory" cars are running MCA Suspension. Glenn and I are running DMS. On the rear, the standard anti-roll bar fouls on the back of the strut, so it's not really an option.

In the front, I'm of the opinion that you want all the droop travel you can get to have both front wheels on the ground and prevent inside wheels lifting and spinning into one-wheel drive. There are other reasons, but that's the primary one for me.

I await Glenn's response.


It's not that far... feel free to come around and have a look.

Fro has pretty much covered it. Droop on the front end is especially important for us non-LSD equipped people. Some additional reasons are around basic grip levels. You want the car to be compliant to maximise the grip and disconnecting the bars does help.

This was illustrated to me last year when I fiddled around with the rear alignment settings and found more rear end grip (I was running too much camber and toe in) and subsequently the car became a bit of an understeering pig....this was the prompt to remove the front bar and hey presto, balance was restored :)

:)

this is all copy and pasted from the rally Canberra thread

Justin

[Crazy Dave]

I added a poll to get an idea of the majority but it does seem fairly mixed anyway. I still run both. I have been talking about taking them out but as we generally pick good road events have left them in there as I like the predictable drift and the flatness. I might get scared if the thing grips more and goes any quicker in corners. One day I will get around to trying it and then be able to see the other side, but mostly just don't have enough time to do it now.

[fro]

This is one of the things I'd love to sample at the next RallySchool.com.au practice day... testing anti-roll bars and other peoples car who have the connected/disconnected.

I'd love to try a rear bar, but given the clearance issues with the DMS, I'd have to get one made, and I want to try it first to see if it would be worth the expense. Catch 22?

As for a front bar, see earlier comments about limiting droop travel and 1WD.

[skypilot]

Hi guys I am not sure if its the same with DMS but I have MCA suspension. I also could not fit my after market sway bar but I could fit the original in only to pull it out again before our first rally. Anyway we ended up puting the thick one back in the other day and bugger me if it didnt fit. It only scrapes the shock bodies on full droop but if you reduce the link length (my bar has adjustable link length)then the bar sits closer to the control arm and gives about 5mm clearance. Murray Coote said that just keep an eye on the shock body but he did say that the body is pretty thick anyway.

As to why it now fits god only knows as all I have changed is the spring ride height and camber and toe in/out//

After spending lots of time talking to Murray and Stewart Reid, we have decided to put the front bar back in and see how it goes next sunday.

To be honest the car felt really wiggly and seemed to roll a lot more without the bar in and it seemed easier to drive with it installed. You could tell the car was totally different to drive and just felt better. I dont know if rally cars are like motorcross bikes, boats and aeroplanes but I have always found that if the the bike,boat,plane feels better at mid speeds you are more likely to enjoy your self rather than worrying about it firing yourself off into the yonder ,having said that I am also very slow and very inexpereinced so take care in believing anything I say.

One of the guys up here has pointed out that by having the bars installed will make driving on the limit much more dangerous but since I dont go anyway near there thats cool.


regards

Justin

[ernysp76]

When Paul ran my car at the first round of VRC this year we adjusted the Whiteline rear bar to softest setting. Biggest difference to control came from re-bushing front and rear bars to nolethane. Shire roads at Bega Ran the rear bar tight last year worked very well, then no rear bar for the rest of the rally. Generally if it is rough we use no rear bar if it is fast and smooth tights setting on rear and bit mixed like VRC 1 loose/soft setting at rear.

[David Marriner]

we have both removed, but are also still running the standard from new (i assume) suspension bushes. Have run with both bars in, front bar only and now none. To be honest havent noticed a huge difference either way but hard to compare with no other excels around although in our local club series times are usually within a couple of secs of the quick 180b's etc.

Dave