Hyundai or Excel Series???

[ernysp76]

When we got together some 16 months ago in Victoria one of the great attractions of this Series was the idea of a succession plan to ensure that this introductory series may have a life beyond the Excel.

I thought to myself finally Rally people are starting to plan long term, that is beyond the next season, and finally a series which already has a logic successor that can compete with older cars in a phase in phase out basis (the Accent) given that the shells will be the only basic difference.

During 2006 we always referred to the Series as the Hyundai Series. In fact at the launch a Wight's in Traralgon some of us had a hard time getting around and pronouncing Hyundai correctly!! It would have been a lot easier to call it the Excel Series. My question is what is the long term plans for the series given that some of the first cars will now be 11 years old this year and the last of the Excels will be at least 6 years old this year. I know in terms of rallying this is not old for a car but if we are going to keep the original idea of having a cheap car that the young people can relate to we need to be thinking now about our succession process and locking ourselves into the "Excel" name may also mean that we are not thinking about the broader catalog of cars that may replace it into the future including the Accent and Getz. Unless we are going for another brand into the future. My thoughts are in order to give us somewhere to go into the future it should be the Hyundai Series, that way we won't have to rebuild a whole identity in the future if we change models.

[Trendact]

Planning ahead is good but if the successor is to come into play with the older Excels are we then going to be able to use engines and parts from the newer models on the older cars? Example if the Accent gets a 1.8 or 2.0 engine and 14” or 15” wheels can we then run this engine, gearbox, ECU etc in the Excel? The idea is to keep it cheap and fair to all but this could make for costly upgrades. Just thinking out loud after a day playing in the skidpan so shoot me if I make no sense as my mind is still back at the pan having fun :rolleyes:

[ernysp76]

I agree but the orginal idea was to phase in the 2000 -2003 Accent it runs the same drive train as the later Excels including the 1.5 motor while its powers is up slightly the weight is as well. That would give use another 5 years. I think that is the most we could look forward and even then we would be looking further forward that any other rally series I know of.

[Whitey]

My view is that it needs to be on the road map but not too soon.

The right time will be when Accents are available at the auctions for the prices that Excels ($1000-$2000) are now. There probably won't be the quantity, so maybe a little more expensive.

The issue I see is that there were only a couple of years of 1.5 Accents before they went to 1.6L engines which in its self creates a parity issue.

We obviously don't want to wait until the latest model Excel is 20 years out of production before introducing a change, but i would have thought that 10 years wasn't too long.

Just as we didn't want to allow performance enhancements such as extractors, throttle bodies etc, we don't want to start messing with the rules by allowing vehicle changes just when we have some national momentum happening. This will only cause potential compeitors to sit on the fence rather than building a car and competing.

Changes to the PRC rules to allow engine changes within manufactures would also help a migration to Accents as then Excel competitors could run 1.6L engines also.

[Trendact]

My main concern is that if the Accent was to ever come out with say a 1.8 or even a higher powered 1.6 (would say that this would mean a disc rear end :D ) and a bigger budget team then goes and builds the latest just released Accent with this engine then we will no longer have a cheap entry level series.

I have no problems with the Accent in its current form being used as long as we can use the Accent mechanicals in the Excel even if small mods need to be made. Not sure what an engine from a current model Accent would cost but if it was a big differance from a Excel engine then at could turn some low budget first timers away from the series, guess this needs to be discussed to work out the pros and cons as yes we do need to plan ahead and have it worked out so people in the series now people looking at entering very soon have an idea of what they need to plan for as well once the Accent starts to flow on into the series.

As Whitey said we still have some time before the Accent becomes a cheap entry level car so we realy don't need to rush the Accent into the series just yet but we do need to plan for it and get it right.

But then what will the Accent be in say 5, 8 or 10 years time?

[ernysp76]

Couldn't agree more, I put a spec sheet on the old group not sure how to get it over to here. The 1.5 Accents are getting close to the Excels in price already in fact I have found that good Excels bring more money than an equivalent Accent so I think if they entered in 2010 they would be about the same. The other models 1.6 and the current body shell is a very different car. The Getz continues to use the 1.5 and is more popular so that may be the next step. The bigger worry with the new model's both Getz and Accent is that they have a beam rear axle. As I said though I think we shouldn't plan beyond 5 years at this stage but what ever we do the reputation we build now should enable us to step into another Hyundai product if that is what we want to do. The support from the company thus far has been great and that is another reason I want to acknowledge Hyundai in the series rather than a model they don't even sell anymore.

[HMCA]

I think we are on the right track with the model roll on. There needs to be a succession plan. While I haven't been to the auctions for some time but I was finding Accents very close to Excel prices and there was a lot less biding on Accents then Excels.

Of course the Excel was known in every other market as an Accent, although I think the Excel is better recognised by the general public and yes the sales volume of Excel were more then the first Accent (and probably the second)that Hyundai marketed in Aust as Accent.

I personally think that Vic has the right idea of calling it the "Traf Tractor and Machinery Hyundai Rally Series" or the "Beaumont tiles Hyundai Rally Series" but thats just my opinon. I also know that Mr Carney has already started preping his 2008 Rally entry.

Below is the information on the current Accent and Getz.

MC Accent Spec Sheet Details

1.6 litre CVVT 16 valve Twin cam
Max Power 82kW at 6000rpm
Max torque 145Nm at 4500rpm
Weight Hatch 1206kg
Weight sedan 1186kg

Getz TB Spec Sheet Details

1.6 litre 16 valve twin cam
Max Power 78kW at 5800rpm
Max torque 144Nm at 3200rpm
Weight 3 door 1075kg
Weight 5 door 1071kg

Cheers Mick

[Trendact]

Calling it the Hyundai series is probably the right move for the future but maybe not have the Accent in the series until the series is 10 yrs old and then start with the earler Accents first.

[Whitey]

Playing devils advocate...
Hyundai is a trademark of HMC and whilst naming the series The Hyundai Rally Series is OK or even Joes BBQ's Hyundai Rally Series, or whatever
What would happen if a sponsor came along and the series was going to be XYZ Cheap Korean Panels Hyundai Rally Series.

Having personally seen how sensative HMC can be to this I can bet that a letter from the legal department would arrive pretty fast if a potential conflict was to arise.

When we were setting up the NSW series, we had a lengthy discussion on whether it should be Hyundai or Excel.

I would steer clear of it to minimize the potential for problems and conflict of interest.

[Whitey]

As there is significant brand recognition nationally of the 'Excel Series' and any change of vehicle is 3 to 5 years away I believe the Excel Series name should be used in every state.

A name change can easily be addressed at a later time.

[HMCA]

Yes Whitey is right with regards to trademark etc. The Vic Series guys asked HMCA for permission to run the with "Hyundai" and the logo's.

Rather then stopping the momentium of all series with any name changes lets just get some more cars out there running and have a good time. Its more then likely each states series will have a different naming rights sponsor anyway. We are all calling it Excel Rally Series, The web site is "excelrally.com.au" Lets get on with it.

[ernysp76]

My team, GOTYA Racing will have two cars going by the end of the season with a Rookie Driver coming on board in July sometime when the second car is ready. My team is ready to go but some of areas of the bush are not yet ready for us. Might need to come up to NSW to get rally experince before Bega. We've also got a old Accent waiting in the wings for 2008 which we wanted to put together, but we might run it as PRC seprate from the Excels.

[Rally Angel]

In SA, the series has been called the "Hyundai" series. However none us thought about any legal implications which may arise from this. One of the reasons why it was called the "Hyundai" series was that the SARP felt this the way to go to allow for vehicle model upgrades. In saying all this, most of us fondly speak of it as the "Excel Series" when we talk about it.

[Crazy Dave]

For now I see that we concentrate on the excels as well and build it to what we can. If we added accents to the series in the future then a name change would be appropriate to help market the changing rules so that people understood that there was a difference.

[HMCA]

It maybe best if you follow your series name up with HMCA to get the approval. I can't see there being a problem with it and if you like send it to me and I will get the authority from the Director of Aftersales at HMCA.

Quote
In SA, the series has been called the "Hyundai" series. However none us thought about any legal implications which may arise from this. One of the reasons why it was called the "Hyundai" series was that the SARP felt this the way to go to allow for vehicle model upgrades. In saying all this, most of us fondly speak of it as the "Excel Series" when we talk about it.

Cheers Mick
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